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    Why do you use Game Maker?

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    ProgrammingLinguist
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    Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by ProgrammingLinguist on 1/7/2010, 5:44 am

    What's so fun about click and drag that gets you all hyped up about making games in GM8?


    Assuming that only people who want to become software engineers/programmers/game programmers etc go on this forum, I really have to say it. There is NO future in developing games with Game Maker 8. You will all develop horrible programming habits.


    Any and all Video Game Development companies such as Valve or Blizzard or Riot Games code in real, high level, and powerful languages such as C++ .

    Mobile games = Java (cross platform)

    Else = ... like what?


    Most games are developed in C++ for 2 reasons which go hand in hand with each other.

    1] DirectX programming
    2] You don't need to make cross-platform games BECAUSE you are programming with DirectX.


    DirectX is a graphical API used for visual programming and is only available on Windows machines. Compilers like Microsoft Visual Studio have simple ways of using the DirectX library and it is a very VERY powerful graphical API (pretty much every PC game out there that sells for more than $5 uses DirectX.


    Every major game development company has their own game engine. Reason: Because they can make their games as unique as they want. Using a game engine of someone else's (such as Game Maker) limits the capabilities of your game and your imagination. If you are given a set of tools and told to build something then you have a finite amount of possibilities to create. However if you are given the very laws of physics and are able to stretch and bend and break any one of them then you have an infinite amount of possibilities ! (an analogy for coding your own game engine)

    And ofcourse let me remind you that I didn't register to flame, I'm only trying to give some valuable advice to programmers (since this IS "Coders Lounge").


    "OK let me give this C++ stuff a try, I want to make a game. But where should I start?" you ask? lol

    I find that the absolute best way to start programming is by reading an online tutorial http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/

    and then practicing on your own by tweaking up some example code and building your own small programs.


    Your ultimate goal for a really good first game should be a simple RPG game. (text based)

    1,2,3 GO!
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    Tirade
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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by Tirade on 1/7/2010, 3:55 pm

    Game Maker isn't so bad, people create some preety cool stuff with it. I thinks its mainly for people who want to get a feel for what programing is like or just hobbiests, like me, who like to create simple games easily every now and then.
    The drag and drop thing is just for people who just started with Game Maker. The more expierienced mostly just use code, and GML from what people tell me is very similar to C++

    (Pardon the bad spelling I have a headace and can't look at the screen for more then 2 seconds at a time)
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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by John on 1/7/2010, 6:54 pm

    @ProgrammingLinguist,

    Between your opinion and the opinion of university level professors, I think I'll choose the professor's opinion. YOU may think that Game Maker is a bad program to start off with. That may be your opinion, but statistically, your opinion is flawed.

    Although you cannot expect to create Halo with Game Maker, Game Maker gives its users the ability to understand programming logic. Just as well, I've seen game made with Game Maker sell for around $10. And these games are well worth the money.

    Game Maker is a great program to begin with. It does not deserve bashing. Not to mention, it's incredibly cheap.


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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by ProgrammingLinguist on 1/7/2010, 8:24 pm

    John wrote:

    Although you cannot expect to create Halo with Game Maker, Game Maker gives its users the ability to understand programming logic.

    This is why tutorials are created. Nobody needs a play toy like this to learn programming.


    Game Maker is to programming as what a Macbook is to Computers. Toys. (yes i double bashed)
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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by John on 1/7/2010, 8:50 pm

    You seem to miss the point. I shall give you an example.

    If someone wants to be a doctor, it does not matter how many tutorials they read, they will NOT be ready to perform a surgical procedure on a real being just yet. That is why there is practice. In the doctor's case, there are practice dummies.

    Game Maker is the school before the real world.


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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by ProgrammingLinguist on 1/8/2010, 7:13 am

    Game Maker is the school before the real world.

    >_> Do you even know how to program in anything else besides Game Maker language?

    If you don't then let me tell you how game maker really screws up a programmer's mind.

    I used to use Alice (the programming animation helper tool that resembles Game Maker and is based on Java and tries to introduce Java to noobs). It was fun with the pretty animations and such and I got good at it (because my counselor forcefully put me in "Intro to programming" instead of AP programming like i asked her. ... she's an idiot. But that's not the point) and I started making really REALLY complex programs. It was fun as I've said and I already read a bunch of tutorials before the school year.

    So I pretty much knew all the basics (loops, program structures, subroutines, recursion, OOP etc) but I didn't have any real programming experience. I only read the tutorials and didn't do any practice problems or program anything on my own without giving up 5 minutes after I've started (I'm really lazy). Alice is the kind of program that is kind to you. It never says "HEY BUDDY YOU'RE AN IDIOT, GO FIX *SO AND SO* SYNTAX ERRORS!". No, it's completely idiot proof. That's BAD.


    When starting REAL programming (since I practically speak C++, I'll just make references to the C++ language throughout the forum and this would be an example).

    First step in programming: Files. You need to know what all the different types of files are and what to do with them, where to put your code, how to structure your most basic "hello world" program and why it works. In Alice there a drag and drop feature that lets you make characters shout out word bubbles. In C++ you need to include the necessary libraries, use the necessary functions for printing onto the screen, and then put all of that in a compiler-readable format. Here's what it looks like.


    Code:

    #include <iostream>

    int main()
    {
    cout<<"Hello World\n";
    return 0;
    }

    That's the absolutely most basic program there is to C++. Now how would a person who has been using Game Maker ever handle this kind of cryptic language? Will he ever use his skills in Alice or Game Maker to try to understand what including libraries mean? My guess is NO.

    Here is where the evils of real programming come into play. What if you screwed up somewhere in your code? The compiler will shit and scream and whine all day about it until you figure out how to fix it. Game Maker and Alice on the other hand will either not have error codes (IDK about game maker but alice rarely had errors) or have some easy to read error code that tells you what to fix and how to do it in a very easy to read manner (now i've never used game maker so I don't know if this is true or not, but I'm assuming it is since it looks so easy to use).

    A person who has been used to such nice error codes and such perfect structures of words put together to make a program will absolutely piss his/her pants when s/he sees the error codes of a C++ compiler. They are absolutely cryptic and sometimes impossible to understand without a few google searches. Some of the errors are absolutely new territory for the Game Maker person because such concepts were not introduced to him or her while using Game Maker such as multiple file definitions. (i had hell with this once)

    Millions of people have become programmers without anything more than self studying with online tutorials. You know, the boring shit that you(not really meaning you specifically, but you do fit the category) chose to ignore and instead play with pretty pictures on a program that you had to pay for.


    If you're going to spend 100 hours studying Game Maker, you're not going to learn programming. You're going to learn how to use Game Maker.

    If you're going to spend 100 hours on language tutorials, practicing programming, reading example code, picking up good programming habits (with game maker you're actually developing poor programing habits such as relying on magic to do the work for you), and getting better at debugging your code, then you will become a successful programmer. Dammit I really need to stop going online this late
    Neutral

    oh well that was fun. looking forward to a fun argument.


    edit: Oh by the way I'm not saying Game Maker is an awful program. Sure it looks like fun, so does Alice (.... well kinda, alice is pretty boring after a while XD ) but the argument is just that Game Maker is probably fun for a hobby (because it's easy and making games is fun) but not for the purpose of becoming a programmer.
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    Re: Why do you use Game Maker?

    Post by John on 1/8/2010, 6:10 pm

    *sigh*

    I'm not looking for an argument. Yes, I use Game Maker as a hobby.
    You practically speak C++? Congratulations. I practically speak LAW. Seeing as to how I wish to be a LAWYER.

    I find it insulting when you use this: >_> Do you even know how to program in anything else besides Game Maker language?

    Why? I know for a fact that there are programmers that use Game Maker that can program better than you.

    But that's not the frustrating part. This is:
    now i've never used game maker so I don't know if this is true or not.

    You're allowed to criticize ALL you want. But you have just completely discredited yourself.

    I will no longer respond because you have no place in which to be talking.
    You've never used the program. You are not allowed to argue against it.

    I may not know every programming language in the world, but if there's one thing I do know how to do, it's debate. You have just lost this debate.


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